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welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

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hello and welcome to the skeptic zone

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episode number 366 for the 25th of

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October 2015 Richard Saunders here with

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you from Sydney Australia 366 episodes

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of the skeptic zone which means next

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time there's a leap year you can listen

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to the first three hundred and sixty six

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episodes 1 episode per day yes I'm sure

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you'll be queuing up to do that one

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what's coming up on this week's show we

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have more reports from the recent

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Australian skeptics convention in

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Brisbane may not running around with his

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microphone interviewing all sorts of

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people the big one of course the big one

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this week is towards the end of the show

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is the first part of a two-part

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interview with legendary psychic and

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paranormal and mystery investigator Joe

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Nickell now Joe Nickell has been in the

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investigation game for many years he's a

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real detective he's worked with police

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on many cases what a fascinating man how

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lucky were we to have a chance to chat

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to Joe Nickell or how lucky was Maynard

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first part of the interview coming up

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later in the show Joe Nickell will be

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discussing what does it mean to debunk

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or not debunk the Nazca lines those

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mysterious lines that you've heard about

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in the desert in South America and may

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not enjoy have a very interesting

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discussion about JFK conspiracies the

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assassination of President Kennedy all

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those years ago over 50 years ago now

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still produces endless conspiracy

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theories and Joe Nickell knows quite a

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lot about that what a fascinating

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interview it is this week may not

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speaking with Joe Nickell that'll be a

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bit later in the show also on this

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week's show a report from Joe alabasta

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about the recent mind-body wallet

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adventure festival excursion I can't

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think of enough words to describe what

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mind body while it's like when you visit

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it as a skeptic it's quite something Joe

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be telling us about that we are very

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lucky this year we went with Iran sir

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give that

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and Australian skeptics and reporter on

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the skeptics own Joe of course was there

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a dr. Brad Mackay from embarrassing

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bodies down under joined us as well as

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kate brown from choice magazine and the

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check out you might know her as the

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guilty mum if you watched the check out

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here in Australia what an eye-opening

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experience it was for them to see mine

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buddy wallet firsthand and one of the

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things that really struck me this time

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although I've seen it many times before

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was ah the entrenched conspiracy-minded

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or the conspiracy theories that are in

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the minds of the people who are flogging

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various things in mind body wallet mind

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body spirit their whole worldview

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revolves around the fact or the fact to

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them that there is a giant conspiracy

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against the New Age modalities their

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flogging mostly medical so if we

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question that this doesn't work or that

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can't work or this violates the laws of

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physics what they'll normally do these

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people is say well you would say that

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you're part of the conspiracy or if we

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ask them why isn't this used in hospital

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oh well science doesn't want to know

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this happens or doctors are only there

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to sell you drugs to keep you sick this

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is their thinking it really is this

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isn't something that they've carefully

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crafted in order to sell their products

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well sort of but it's more to them a

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reality they really do think like this

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it's fascinating it really is

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fascinating it doesn't excuse the

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outlandish quackery on offer it

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mind-body wallet every year and you'll

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see this in psychic and New Age fairs

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around the world things that can't

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possibly work but I guess it boils down

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to consumer affairs anyway we look

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forward to Joe alabaster's little report

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about mind body wallet coming up Oh

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somewhere in the middle of this week's

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show now before we get stuck into this

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week's show let me tell you about a new

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little venture I've set up in order to

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help fund the skeptics own and skeptical

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things mr. Katz handmade origami jewelry

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thank you to all those people in

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Brisbane at the can

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mention who stopped by the skeptics own

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table and bought some Pegasus pendants

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that I'd made or flying bird pendants

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some earrings there that I'm known for

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making it all helps to support the

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skeptic zone and with Christmas coming

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up folks anyway if you go to ww skeptics

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on TV scroll down a little you'll see

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the link to mr. cat that's me well it's

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Fred he's around here somewhere handmade

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origami jewelry have a look well that's

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enough from me at the moment it's time

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for me to run downstairs make sure that

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fred has lots of fresh cat food keep him

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happy why not cat food it's um he likes

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um the gravy kind lots of gravy meaty

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chunks in gravy especially beef although

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in his um advancing years he's getting a

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bit picky hmm I'll try that on him while

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he's enjoying that I hope you enjoy the

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here's may not spooky action at the

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big citement is building here as we

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drive through the streets of Brisbane

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hello hello and no no one knows who we

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are but I'm here with mr. Saunders how I

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I'm well Maynard we had a wonderful

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flight Thank You tiger oh yeah we're

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right up the front in fact we were

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almost flying the plane there's a photo

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of us online and I look like gonzo and

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you look like Leslie Nielsen that was

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the idea yeah it looks like just that

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scene and you've got a shot of the

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entire plane with us at the front looks

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like that sent him flying high where

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they go brace for crash positions

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everyone goes nuts it's just like a

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still from that and we got Ross's Daniel

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a gun sir I'm very good me know how are

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you pretty good now he's driving around

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in the rebbe for here but normally he

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gets around in an 18-wheeler petrol

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tanker don't you man I do yes very

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exciting it is to main oh now now you

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said you don't come into the city often

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which you wouldn't really want it with a

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petrol tanker but is it easy to get

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around Brisbane as far as the traffic

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geyser was a poorly designed in my

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opinion it's poorly designed for lease

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yes no excuse my northern accent but

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that's the way it is oh I know where you

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a where are you from for the Liverpool

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skeptics by the way we go from Darby and

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right knee where Alex was born yeah but

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now Richard where are we staying in

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we're staying your name Pavel Havel air

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B&B but I was just thinking me now the

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good thing about sitting right at the

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front of the aircraft is when we land

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where the first to get off yes we got

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off and it was like the Beatles no we

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were gonna wave take a selfie but i

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reckon taking a selfie with the photo

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everyone behind you hating your guts cuz

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you're holding up getting off the plan

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was wouldnt have been a good look there

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were stairs but we did give a wave but

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but then we didn't know where to go it

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was like you know it's like we were

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getting off the plane and we could hear

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the man about the house music playing

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dude it was very 70s it was great and

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then we got inside the terminal and now

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in business this is exciting I people

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are rushing rushing and flushing all

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over the fact that they've got the

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National skeptics conference happens

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weekend I've already chilled the ice for

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the glass of scotch that I'm going to

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have with joe nickell what are you

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looking forward to the highlight of the

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weekend there's no one highlight main

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art it's all going to be good at the

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moment we're on our way to skeptic camp

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which is kicking off the national

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convention I'm going to be looking

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forward to meeting Eugenie Scott and all

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my friends that I only seen formerly

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conventions or every now and then but I

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only said it once a year they aren't

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your friends which it that's true but it

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promises to be a great weekend and what

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are you gonna be doing at skeptic at

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you're giving a talk yeah I'm giving a

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talk in a few hours about the autumn

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just over now about the million-dollar

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challenge okay and I'll just be giving a

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talk about my failed career to anyone

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who's happy to listen looking forward

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I'll be the one then into the bar

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sobbing hey well okay I'm that yet you

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know where we going sir to you only just

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I think may not be I'll see how the GPS

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performs not very good in the city

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sometimes i'm outside now with someone

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you might know as the godless fierce dot

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com blog or what's your name sir james

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photo and where do you go to study

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though the university of melbourne what

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are you studying their maths and physics

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sort of mostly and what were you doing

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in skipped your camp today as I admit it

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in front of everyone then i was probably

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the only person in the room who didn't

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quite understand what you had talked us

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my philosophy stops at nisha because

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that was a bit of a downer i believe

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that life intrinsically means nothing

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but what was what you were saying what

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was that meaning on just in a nutshell

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well i was talking about the philosophy

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of science and basically some of the

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insights that philosophers have given

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about the scientific method and how it's

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maybe a little bit more complicated than

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we might fall now I imagine philosophers

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and scientists don't always get on in

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fact we have one in the corner of the

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room going what's the importance of this

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as long as you get the answer right

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don't bang on about the thinking don't

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overthink it i think he was saying

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yeah that is a fairly common attitude

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and you hear people like Neil deGrasse

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Tyson and others making sort of negative

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claims about about philosophy am I

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generally don't really agree with that I

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think that it does help us to think I

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mean philosophy is fundamentally

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thinking just carefully and logically

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about things and trying to make sense of

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it the best we can and I think that

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that's what we should be aiming to do

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with skeptical thinkers so I think it's

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absolutely important this is an

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intersect with ethics at all or not

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ethics well I think you can intersect

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maybe with sort of research or

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publication ethics in the sense that I

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think it's very important that when

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we're making claims or you know trying

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to educate people say things that were

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careful about what we can claim on the

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basis of the evidence and some of this

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philosophy stuff I think actually is

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relevant to you know thinking about what

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we can and cannot say on the basis of

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evidence there's maybe a misconception

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that philosophers sort of anti-science

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in some sense but there is a very large

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number of philosophers who are very down

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with science and really want to provide

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a sort of rigorous underpinning of how

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we can make sense of it to the

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philosophical meanwhile scientists are

271
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doing in the epistemological framework

272
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behind that so you know people like

273
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Sheldrake do exist but I think a lot of

274
00:10:58,710 --> 00:10:57,009
mainstream philosophers don't take that

275
00:11:00,780 --> 00:10:58,720
very seriously and what is the best way

276
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for philosophers and scientists to get

277
00:11:03,949 --> 00:11:02,139
on what's the common ground where they

278
00:11:06,509 --> 00:11:03,959
can both agree and move on from there

279
00:11:08,249 --> 00:11:06,519
well the word philosophy comes from

280
00:11:10,049 --> 00:11:08,259
philosophy r the love of wisdom and I

281
00:11:11,639 --> 00:11:10,059
think scientists would agree with that

282
00:11:13,379 --> 00:11:11,649
wholeheartedly that we're sort of all

283
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trying to seek wisdom understanding of

284
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things and science and philosophy

285
00:11:19,350 --> 00:11:18,129
approach somewhat different questions

286
00:11:21,119 --> 00:11:19,360
using somewhat different methods but I

287
00:11:22,710 --> 00:11:21,129
don't see them as incompatible and

288
00:11:24,509 --> 00:11:22,720
ideally I think that if we're interested

289
00:11:26,100 --> 00:11:24,519
in truth seeking and trying to have the

290
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most accurate beliefs as possible that

291
00:11:29,050 --> 00:11:27,110
will

292
00:11:31,090 --> 00:11:29,060
yeah find a way to incorporate them and

293
00:11:32,920 --> 00:11:31,100
learn what we can from the different

294
00:11:35,230 --> 00:11:32,930
disciplines and their respective rich

295
00:11:36,699 --> 00:11:35,240
intellectual traditions and shout out to

296
00:11:37,990 --> 00:11:36,709
your favorite philosopher have you got

297
00:11:39,550 --> 00:11:38,000
one that you've studied you well well I

298
00:11:41,370 --> 00:11:39,560
like that if you miss just a really good

299
00:11:44,970 --> 00:11:41,380
start when it comes to thinking about

300
00:11:47,560 --> 00:11:44,980
well things from a sort of a skeptical

301
00:11:49,090 --> 00:11:47,570
really well The Skeptical rational sort

302
00:11:52,780 --> 00:11:49,100
of mindset him was an empiricist in an

303
00:11:53,949 --> 00:11:52,790
early sort of well was I atheist he

304
00:11:56,290 --> 00:11:53,959
couldn't exactly call himself an atheist

305
00:11:58,840 --> 00:11:56,300
back then but yeah so probably he'd be

306
00:12:00,190 --> 00:11:58,850
one of my favorite philosophers and that

307
00:12:02,530 --> 00:12:00,200
talk your game today will we find that

308
00:12:04,480 --> 00:12:02,540
on the godless asus com website your

309
00:12:06,699 --> 00:12:04,490
blog I'm not sure if I've actually

310
00:12:08,350 --> 00:12:06,709
posted it there but yes i'll post up my

311
00:12:09,790 --> 00:12:08,360
slides or summary or something similar

312
00:12:11,139 --> 00:12:09,800
shortly and there's similar things that

313
00:12:13,870 --> 00:12:11,149
i talked about there as well in the post

314
00:12:15,610 --> 00:12:13,880
yeah what else do you do do atheists

315
00:12:16,870 --> 00:12:15,620
issues very often or is it but you hit

316
00:12:18,579 --> 00:12:16,880
the head your roundoff what you're right

317
00:12:20,290 --> 00:12:18,589
up there well partly what I write about

318
00:12:21,670 --> 00:12:20,300
depends on you know if I've had a

319
00:12:23,259 --> 00:12:21,680
conversation with someone or seen

320
00:12:24,579 --> 00:12:23,269
something that's of interest I do write

321
00:12:26,199 --> 00:12:24,589
quite a bit about religion and

322
00:12:28,360 --> 00:12:26,209
philosophy of religion which hence the

323
00:12:30,370 --> 00:12:28,370
name of the blog and other philosophical

324
00:12:32,199 --> 00:12:30,380
or scientific interests world sometimes

325
00:12:34,569 --> 00:12:32,209
I write about history so it's a bit of a

326
00:12:35,740 --> 00:12:34,579
mishmash of things that interest me or I

327
00:12:37,269 --> 00:12:35,750
think I have something slightly

328
00:12:38,410 --> 00:12:37,279
interesting to say and if you want to

329
00:12:41,019 --> 00:12:38,420
have a look at that that's the godless

330
00:12:43,300 --> 00:12:41,029
godless atheist calm goddess Theus oh

331
00:12:45,130 --> 00:12:43,310
god that's okay that's right discuss a

332
00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:45,140
look I was looking at godless thiet

333
00:12:47,920 --> 00:12:46,610
that's a dichotomy I thought to myself

334
00:12:49,480 --> 00:12:47,930
now thought what does dichotomy mean

335
00:12:51,730 --> 00:12:49,490
yeah well it's a deliberate oxymoron yes

336
00:12:53,949 --> 00:12:51,740
so it's that's still a break okay now

337
00:12:58,030 --> 00:12:53,959
once again it's the godless theist one

338
00:12:59,650 --> 00:12:58,040
word calm and here we are at Brisbane

339
00:13:02,079 --> 00:12:59,660
skip decamp the people are in there

340
00:13:03,430 --> 00:13:02,089
looking and talking and they arguing

341
00:13:05,530 --> 00:13:03,440
will be going on later but who've we got

342
00:13:07,269 --> 00:13:05,540
here I'm Angie matki I'm an emergency

343
00:13:09,009 --> 00:13:07,279
physician from the United States and

344
00:13:11,019 --> 00:13:09,019
what are you doing here as part of this

345
00:13:13,210 --> 00:13:11,029
whole weekend well I was one of the

346
00:13:15,069 --> 00:13:13,220
speakers I had a wonderful interaction

347
00:13:16,810 --> 00:13:15,079
with the group and they enjoyed my

348
00:13:18,430 --> 00:13:16,820
alternative medicine discussion and I'm

349
00:13:20,420 --> 00:13:18,440
just having a good time seeing all these

350
00:13:22,490 --> 00:13:20,430
folks that are so smart and so in

351
00:13:25,820 --> 00:13:22,500
what I imagined as part of your regular

352
00:13:27,620 --> 00:13:25,830
medical kit as a mergency responder

353
00:13:32,810 --> 00:13:27,630
you'd have some rescue remedy in there

354
00:13:38,210 --> 00:13:32,820
wouldn't you so some Bach Flower

355
00:13:41,090 --> 00:13:38,220
Remedies Wow none of that stuff hey ed

356
00:13:42,290 --> 00:13:41,100
really wow oh yeah homeopathy no that's

357
00:13:44,570 --> 00:13:42,300
really only good enough to cure a

358
00:13:46,519 --> 00:13:44,580
dehydration Oh what because I've seen

359
00:13:49,010 --> 00:13:46,529
Rescue Remedy being sold in chemists

360
00:13:50,600 --> 00:13:49,020
lately as something that students are

361
00:13:54,620 --> 00:13:50,610
feeling nervous about their exam could

362
00:13:56,210 --> 00:13:54,630
possibly have and so what was your angle

363
00:13:57,590 --> 00:13:56,220
on the alternate medicine you were here

364
00:13:58,730 --> 00:13:57,600
you were saying we carry lots of it

365
00:14:01,010 --> 00:13:58,740
round in the back of the ambulance and

366
00:14:02,780 --> 00:14:01,020
it always works you're saying can you

367
00:14:05,240 --> 00:14:02,790
had testimonials from people going I was

368
00:14:06,650 --> 00:14:05,250
dying but now that buddy bark flower him

369
00:14:09,260 --> 00:14:06,660
and he got me right up there yeah oddly

370
00:14:11,090 --> 00:14:09,270
we never see that he's never here yeah

371
00:14:12,829 --> 00:14:11,100
yes it was what were you talking about

372
00:14:15,050 --> 00:14:12,839
anybody what he's saying man oh I

373
00:14:18,740 --> 00:14:15,060
explained some of the history of

374
00:14:20,750 --> 00:14:18,750
chiropractic acupuncture and homeopathy

375
00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:20,760
and explained how there's really no

376
00:14:25,100 --> 00:14:23,130
evidence to support use of these things

377
00:14:26,960 --> 00:14:25,110
to treat nearly anything plus I

378
00:14:30,470 --> 00:14:26,970
discussed the disease process itself and

379
00:14:32,510 --> 00:14:30,480
how when people have a normally waxing

380
00:14:34,010 --> 00:14:32,520
and waning course of a disease process

381
00:14:36,470 --> 00:14:34,020
if they use an intervention when they're

382
00:14:38,630 --> 00:14:36,480
at their worst they will think anything

383
00:14:39,920 --> 00:14:38,640
works and the biggest day at their most

384
00:14:41,780 --> 00:14:39,930
vulnerable and they're just going to

385
00:14:43,490 --> 00:14:41,790
give anything you shot correct correct

386
00:14:44,780 --> 00:14:43,500
and and so they do sometimes the

387
00:14:46,370 --> 00:14:44,790
improvement but it's not necessarily

388
00:14:49,100 --> 00:14:46,380
because of the thing that they tried I

389
00:14:51,140 --> 00:14:49,110
would imagine that in the case of cancer

390
00:14:52,850 --> 00:14:51,150
doing chemotherapy the results of that

391
00:14:54,230 --> 00:14:52,860
would be so bad that people would try

392
00:14:56,360 --> 00:14:54,240
anything to try and avoid that would

393
00:14:58,040 --> 00:14:56,370
also be something that happens that's a

394
00:14:59,740 --> 00:14:58,050
lot of what I hear from patients when

395
00:15:02,030 --> 00:14:59,750
they try to avoid chemotherapy um

396
00:15:04,010 --> 00:15:02,040
unfortunately though chemotherapy really

397
00:15:05,890 --> 00:15:04,020
is one of the best things we have for

398
00:15:07,930 --> 00:15:05,900
cancer at this point

399
00:15:09,850 --> 00:15:07,940
and can some of the alternative

400
00:15:12,940 --> 00:15:09,860
medicines are lay some of the symptoms

401
00:15:14,080 --> 00:15:12,950
even even in a placebo effect well if

402
00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:14,090
they actually work they would be

403
00:15:16,990 --> 00:15:16,010
considered medicine so they wouldn't

404
00:15:19,840 --> 00:15:17,000
actually be considered alternative

405
00:15:22,570 --> 00:15:19,850
medicines lesie bo effect is in effect

406
00:15:25,540 --> 00:15:22,580
but there's no real evidence that that

407
00:15:27,700 --> 00:15:25,550
has any true effect and it's not just

408
00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:27,710
the thing itself that you take it's the

409
00:15:34,330 --> 00:15:31,490
whole surrounding situation nice

410
00:15:36,610 --> 00:15:34,340
lighting the very caring provider those

411
00:15:38,670 --> 00:15:36,620
things all provide a placebo effect over

412
00:15:41,770 --> 00:15:38,680
and above the actual pill that you take

413
00:15:44,050 --> 00:15:41,780
how do you go when you compare your

414
00:15:45,820 --> 00:15:44,060
experience with real medicine to people

415
00:15:48,010 --> 00:15:45,830
who had a personal experience and will

416
00:15:50,650 --> 00:15:48,020
swear blind that this thing cured them

417
00:15:51,790 --> 00:15:50,660
that no way it could have how do you go

418
00:15:54,220 --> 00:15:51,800
with those arguments because that's

419
00:15:57,910 --> 00:15:54,230
tough I try very hard not to alienate my

420
00:16:00,220 --> 00:15:57,920
patients but sometimes I have to explain

421
00:16:02,470 --> 00:16:00,230
and that the thing that they were doing

422
00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:02,480
probably did not help and in fact I have

423
00:16:06,160 --> 00:16:04,610
seen people have great harm from these

424
00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:06,170
interventions I've seen I personally

425
00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:08,090
seen a patient paralyzed from what I

426
00:16:11,410 --> 00:16:09,410
suspect was the chiropractic

427
00:16:13,330 --> 00:16:11,420
manipulation and that is on top of the

428
00:16:15,280 --> 00:16:13,340
possible delay of proper treatment by

429
00:16:16,360 --> 00:16:15,290
trying these things first perhaps mud

430
00:16:19,750 --> 00:16:16,370
that might have happened to Steve Jobs

431
00:16:21,160 --> 00:16:19,760
even correct correct so what would you

432
00:16:22,990 --> 00:16:21,170
say to someone whose friend is getting

433
00:16:24,580 --> 00:16:23,000
into a bit of alternative medicine and

434
00:16:25,960 --> 00:16:24,590
they should be maybe getting into the

435
00:16:28,300 --> 00:16:25,970
real medicine what's what's the best way

436
00:16:29,830 --> 00:16:28,310
to have an intervention with them well

437
00:16:31,960 --> 00:16:29,840
that's a very good question i struggle

438
00:16:33,670 --> 00:16:31,970
with that myself but you know the

439
00:16:35,050 --> 00:16:33,680
certainly the thing you want to do is to

440
00:16:36,150 --> 00:16:35,060
preserve your relationship with the

441
00:16:38,460 --> 00:16:36,160
person

442
00:16:41,610 --> 00:16:38,470
and make sure that you're supportive of

443
00:16:43,470 --> 00:16:41,620
their attempts to heal themselves

444
00:16:46,050 --> 00:16:43,480
unfortunately many times they use

445
00:16:48,689 --> 00:16:46,060
techniques that are not helpful and all

446
00:16:50,579 --> 00:16:48,699
you can do is educate yourself and try

447
00:16:52,199 --> 00:16:50,589
to help educate the person but you just

448
00:16:54,059 --> 00:16:52,209
sometimes you just kind of have to let

449
00:16:57,030 --> 00:16:54,069
people make their own decisions now

450
00:16:59,040 --> 00:16:57,040
where does the emergency room sit in the

451
00:17:00,990 --> 00:16:59,050
hierarchy of the surgeon the

452
00:17:02,809 --> 00:17:01,000
neurosurgeons think their god of course

453
00:17:04,860 --> 00:17:02,819
the rasik surgeons just underneath them

454
00:17:07,140 --> 00:17:04,870
dermatologists apparently towards the

455
00:17:08,579 --> 00:17:07,150
bottom where does it sit in the pecking

456
00:17:10,500 --> 00:17:08,589
order of doctors because they've all but

457
00:17:11,699 --> 00:17:10,510
that sort of thing going on it's subtle

458
00:17:12,899 --> 00:17:11,709
they don't like to admit it but there's

459
00:17:13,909 --> 00:17:12,909
new resurgence I think they're pretty

460
00:17:17,130 --> 00:17:13,919
good because I mess with people's heads

461
00:17:19,919 --> 00:17:17,140
that's funny to say that I think that

462
00:17:21,539 --> 00:17:19,929
we're we're both respected and vilified

463
00:17:23,939 --> 00:17:21,549
in many ways because I'm an emergency

464
00:17:25,169 --> 00:17:23,949
doctor but I work only nights and so I'm

465
00:17:27,120 --> 00:17:25,179
waking them up in the middle of the

466
00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:27,130
night and so I'm dealing with egos I've

467
00:17:32,039 --> 00:17:29,890
had all hours oh but and many times

468
00:17:33,180 --> 00:17:32,049
those egos are not at their best at two

469
00:17:36,270 --> 00:17:33,190
o'clock in the morning when I'm calling

470
00:17:38,279 --> 00:17:36,280
them but but they have to sometimes be

471
00:17:40,289 --> 00:17:38,289
reminded that my goal is to take care of

472
00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:40,299
their patient and so I'm doing you need

473
00:17:43,710 --> 00:17:42,250
to be here now well sometimes that's the

474
00:17:46,409 --> 00:17:43,720
case sometimes I just need some advice

475
00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:46,419
but but many times I need their help in

476
00:17:50,549 --> 00:17:48,610
coordinating the patient's care and so

477
00:17:52,140 --> 00:17:50,559
we really truly are trying to do the

478
00:17:57,090 --> 00:17:52,150
best thing for the patient and at least

479
00:17:59,880 --> 00:17:57,100
in the States we are compelled to see

480
00:18:02,789 --> 00:17:59,890
all comers we stabilize all patients

481
00:18:05,730 --> 00:18:02,799
regardless of their ability to pay other

482
00:18:07,560 --> 00:18:05,740
specialties they don't have the same I

483
00:18:09,360 --> 00:18:07,570
mean they do to some extent have the

484
00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:09,370
same

485
00:18:13,980 --> 00:18:11,890
they kind of had the luxury of time

486
00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:13,990
don't they usually many times many times

487
00:18:17,100 --> 00:18:15,490
that's true we're often compelled to

488
00:18:19,470 --> 00:18:17,110
make decisions very rapidly with the

489
00:18:20,580 --> 00:18:19,480
minimum of atom of information so we do

490
00:18:22,650 --> 00:18:20,590
what we can to put the story together

491
00:18:24,210 --> 00:18:22,660
but sometimes we don't have all the

492
00:18:27,960 --> 00:18:24,220
information we do the best we can with

493
00:18:30,210 --> 00:18:27,970
that and we are there on holidays where

494
00:18:31,770 --> 00:18:30,220
there on weekends we are doing the

495
00:18:34,230 --> 00:18:31,780
things when people are not in their

496
00:18:37,380 --> 00:18:34,240
offices and what personally drew you

497
00:18:39,750 --> 00:18:37,390
inspired you to emergency medicine like

498
00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:39,760
it's a very specified area sure you be

499
00:18:42,900 --> 00:18:41,410
getting a rush all the time when someone

500
00:18:44,669 --> 00:18:42,910
comes through that door is that part of

501
00:18:46,890 --> 00:18:44,679
it all or not well what drew you to it

502
00:18:48,540 --> 00:18:46,900
that's a really good question um we need

503
00:18:50,040 --> 00:18:48,550
to be working with kids although that

504
00:18:52,140 --> 00:18:50,050
can be very sad you could be working

505
00:18:54,180 --> 00:18:52,150
you'll be doing anything really yeah

506
00:18:56,400 --> 00:18:54,190
that's that you just told me why I'm

507
00:18:57,990 --> 00:18:56,410
doing this I mean it it's the not

508
00:19:01,620 --> 00:18:58,000
knowing what's going to walk in I enjoy

509
00:19:05,010 --> 00:19:01,630
that I enjoy that I enjoy the challenge

510
00:19:07,500 --> 00:19:05,020
of managing a heart attack in one moment

511
00:19:10,169 --> 00:19:07,510
and a penetrating gunshot wound the next

512
00:19:12,210 --> 00:19:10,179
and then you know an earache and it's

513
00:19:14,730 --> 00:19:12,220
it's it's a lot of fun to have that

514
00:19:17,370 --> 00:19:14,740
variety and i think i would be bored

515
00:19:19,260 --> 00:19:17,380
stiff in an office job and one last tip

516
00:19:20,940 --> 00:19:19,270
for the skeptic zone listeners you see a

517
00:19:23,669 --> 00:19:20,950
lot of accidents I'll trajan it

518
00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:23,679
naturally car accidents but is there

519
00:19:26,430 --> 00:19:25,210
sort of accidents in the home that we

520
00:19:28,500 --> 00:19:26,440
can avoid and look out for I believe

521
00:19:30,330 --> 00:19:28,510
slipping in the bathtub is one that we

522
00:19:32,130 --> 00:19:30,340
don't think of that can be real killer

523
00:19:33,930 --> 00:19:32,140
wasn't so much killer but disabling I

524
00:19:36,060 --> 00:19:33,940
see that a lot and it's funny because

525
00:19:38,340 --> 00:19:36,070
whenever the older folks who don't

526
00:19:39,750 --> 00:19:38,350
typically have very strong bones to

527
00:19:41,070 --> 00:19:39,760
start with feel bad in the middle of the

528
00:19:42,360 --> 00:19:41,080
night the first thing they do is get up

529
00:19:44,130 --> 00:19:42,370
and walk to the hardest room in the

530
00:19:46,080 --> 00:19:44,140
house that has the most damaging

531
00:19:48,210 --> 00:19:46,090
surfaces and then they fall down and

532
00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:48,220
they cut their head or they break their

533
00:19:52,890 --> 00:19:50,610
hip or you know something like that so I

534
00:19:54,750 --> 00:19:52,900
don't know if the answer is to pad the

535
00:19:56,190 --> 00:19:54,760
bathroom or not but but we certainly

536
00:19:58,140 --> 00:19:56,200
want to make sure that people are

537
00:19:59,460 --> 00:19:58,150
careful about about moving around making

538
00:20:01,310 --> 00:19:59,470
sure they're using their hand holds

539
00:20:03,289 --> 00:20:01,320
their walkers if they need them

540
00:20:04,970 --> 00:20:03,299
sighs rubber bath mat with suction

541
00:20:06,409 --> 00:20:04,980
things on the bottom that would be an

542
00:20:08,779 --> 00:20:06,419
excellent way to help prevent that from

543
00:20:09,980 --> 00:20:08,789
happening thank you very much for

544
00:20:11,210 --> 00:20:09,990
joining us on the skipping zone you're

545
00:20:12,740 --> 00:20:11,220
gonna have a great weekend oh my

546
00:20:26,410 --> 00:20:12,750
pleasure i can't wait it's so much fun

547
00:20:31,490 --> 00:20:29,210
welcome to Weekend science from RI oz

548
00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:31,500
bringing you the science you need to

549
00:20:36,020 --> 00:20:33,410
know faster than a speeding bullet

550
00:20:37,870 --> 00:20:36,030
literally two teams are trying to raise

551
00:20:40,970 --> 00:20:37,880
the land speed record to a staggering

552
00:20:42,350 --> 00:20:40,980
1,000 miles per hour let's take a closer

553
00:20:48,350 --> 00:20:42,360
look at these incredible engineering

554
00:20:49,970 --> 00:20:48,360
projects one project trying to achieve

555
00:20:53,450 --> 00:20:49,980
this mind-boggling feat is the

556
00:20:55,760 --> 00:20:53,460
Bloodhound SSC project from the UK their

557
00:20:59,030 --> 00:20:55,770
car is powered by a jet engine and a

558
00:21:03,380 --> 00:20:59,040
rocket engine together providing 47,000

559
00:21:05,900 --> 00:21:03,390
pounds of thrust or around 135,000

560
00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:05,910
horsepower for every doubling of speed

561
00:21:11,510 --> 00:21:08,690
aerodynamic drag is increased fourfold

562
00:21:13,430 --> 00:21:11,520
meaning at 1,000 miles per hour the

563
00:21:16,130 --> 00:21:13,440
engines will be pushing the car through

564
00:21:18,620 --> 00:21:16,140
11 tons per square meter of air pressure

565
00:21:20,870 --> 00:21:18,630
the aerodynamic forces are unlike

566
00:21:23,300 --> 00:21:20,880
anything seen before and has seen

567
00:21:25,130 --> 00:21:23,310
extensive computational fluid dynamic

568
00:21:27,350 --> 00:21:25,140
studies to not only make the car

569
00:21:31,510 --> 00:21:27,360
efficient enough to reach the target but

570
00:21:37,370 --> 00:21:33,650
challenging Bloodhound is Australia's

571
00:21:39,050 --> 00:21:37,380
Rosco McGlashan in Ozzie invader 5r this

572
00:21:41,590 --> 00:21:39,060
bullet shaped vehicle is powered by a

573
00:21:44,450 --> 00:21:41,600
single rocket engine producing around

574
00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:44,460
62,000 pounds of thrust the equivalent

575
00:21:50,150 --> 00:21:47,610
of around 200 thousand horsepower the

576
00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:50,160
rocket is powered by kerosene and liquid

577
00:21:54,890 --> 00:21:52,530
oxygen one knows we'll design elements

578
00:21:56,900 --> 00:21:54,900
of the car is a v-shaped bottom surface

579
00:21:58,910 --> 00:21:56,910
to deflect shockwaves from underneath

580
00:22:02,540 --> 00:21:58,920
the car providing greater stability

581
00:22:04,700 --> 00:22:02,550
during extremely high speeds and now for

582
00:22:09,050 --> 00:22:04,710
fast facts about how to design a land

583
00:22:11,060 --> 00:22:09,060
speed record breaking car one of the

584
00:22:12,980 --> 00:22:11,070
most important designer aspects of the

585
00:22:15,620 --> 00:22:12,990
car is to have neither lift making the

586
00:22:17,540 --> 00:22:15,630
car take off nor down force pushing it

587
00:22:20,210 --> 00:22:17,550
down into the ground and risking

588
00:22:22,340 --> 00:22:20,220
breaking for suspension one of the most

589
00:22:24,380 --> 00:22:22,350
important design aspects of the car is

590
00:22:26,870 --> 00:22:24,390
to have neither lift making the car take

591
00:22:29,230 --> 00:22:26,880
off nor down force pushing it into the

592
00:22:31,610 --> 00:22:29,240
ground and risk breaking the suspension

593
00:22:34,430 --> 00:22:31,620
breaking from high speeds is also

594
00:22:37,460 --> 00:22:34,440
important Bloodhound uses the cars own

595
00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:37,470
aerodynamic drag at very high speeds

596
00:22:43,730 --> 00:22:40,010
then air brakes then parachutes and

597
00:22:46,100 --> 00:22:43,740
finally will brakes to stop the car the

598
00:22:48,380 --> 00:22:46,110
wheels are extremely important made of

599
00:22:50,990 --> 00:22:48,390
solid aluminium alloy they will spin it

600
00:22:53,330 --> 00:22:51,000
over 10,000 revolutions per minute and

601
00:22:55,220 --> 00:22:53,340
in contrast to what you may think it is

602
00:22:57,529 --> 00:22:55,230
actually important to keep the weight of

603
00:22:59,659 --> 00:22:57,539
these cars up to provide stability and

604
00:23:02,120 --> 00:22:59,669
to make sure the wheels maintain

605
00:23:04,039 --> 00:23:02,130
traction and do not slide that's it for

606
00:23:05,930 --> 00:23:04,049
this week in science for more

607
00:23:10,250 --> 00:23:05,940
information on these engineering quests

608
00:23:13,399 --> 00:23:10,260
goes to the RLS website are I a u.s. dog

609
00:23:16,070 --> 00:23:13,409
to a you follow us on twitter at ra oz

610
00:23:26,810 --> 00:23:16,080
and like us on facebook i'm ben lewis

611
00:23:28,159 --> 00:23:26,820
and we'll catch you next week are you

612
00:23:31,039 --> 00:23:28,169
tired of waiting for the end of the

613
00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:31,049
world is the grain nano goo coming for

614
00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:33,570
you or are you just annoyed by those

615
00:23:37,580 --> 00:23:35,490
hordes of undead or the color of the

616
00:23:40,070 --> 00:23:37,590
moon or even swarms of a sort of

617
00:23:43,279 --> 00:23:40,080
biblical insects could that silly movie

618
00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:43,289
2012 actually have any basis of reality

619
00:23:48,590 --> 00:23:46,890
or will a machine to rule us all for

620
00:23:50,270 --> 00:23:48,600
these questions are fun we can down more

621
00:23:52,549 --> 00:23:50,280
comes in the new zealand skeptics

622
00:23:55,510 --> 00:23:52,559
society 2015 annual conference

623
00:23:58,039 --> 00:23:55,520
christchurch 20th 222nd november

624
00:24:00,020 --> 00:23:58,049
evidence shows that we even have a real

625
00:24:02,060 --> 00:24:00,030
scientist speaking on fantastic topics

626
00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:02,070
when the echoing hoofbeats of the for

627
00:24:05,299 --> 00:24:03,690
gender neutral equations of the

628
00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:05,309
apocalypse ring out across the world

629
00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:08,250
where will you be christchurch new

630
00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:11,330
zealand twentieth 222nd november

631
00:24:16,370 --> 00:24:14,490
apocalypse how after all with the go to

632
00:24:19,430 --> 00:24:16,380
place for natural disasters for further

633
00:24:21,049 --> 00:24:19,440
details visit conference top skeptics NZ

634
00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:21,059
you zealand skeptics society is a

635
00:24:24,770 --> 00:24:22,890
charitable organization that exists to

636
00:24:30,060 --> 00:24:24,780
promote critical thinking the devil is

637
00:24:39,449 --> 00:24:32,650
what we want is some more evidence

638
00:24:39,459 --> 00:24:45,830
hello this is Joe alabaster

639
00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:49,290
well this weekend was that time again

640
00:24:54,660 --> 00:24:52,330
the mind-body-spirit festival or as we

641
00:24:57,750 --> 00:24:54,670
like to call it mind body wallet was in

642
00:24:59,940 --> 00:24:57,760
town held in Brisbane Sydney and

643
00:25:02,430 --> 00:24:59,950
Melbourne mind-body wallet rolls around

644
00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:02,440
every six months and each time I

645
00:25:06,210 --> 00:25:03,970
mentioned on social media that I'm

646
00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:06,220
planning on attending friends quite

647
00:25:11,220 --> 00:25:08,530
reasonably I might add question why it

648
00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:11,230
is that anyone who is of a skeptical /

649
00:25:15,060 --> 00:25:13,450
evidence-based mindset will put

650
00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:15,070
themselves through a day of wandering

651
00:25:19,100 --> 00:25:16,810
through I'll up on aisle of stalls

652
00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:19,110
containing people deep into the Wu and

653
00:25:24,450 --> 00:25:21,970
selling it chiropractors health

654
00:25:26,010 --> 00:25:24,460
supplements iridology bizarre machines

655
00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:26,020
which claimed to be able to diagnose

656
00:25:32,130 --> 00:25:28,210
anything under the Sun energy healing

657
00:25:33,810 --> 00:25:32,140
crystal healing psychics I'm not going

658
00:25:36,510 --> 00:25:33,820
to pretend that it's always pleasant or

659
00:25:38,700 --> 00:25:36,520
easy especially in contrast with last

660
00:25:40,710 --> 00:25:38,710
weekend's Australian skeptics national

661
00:25:42,360 --> 00:25:40,720
convention in Brisbane where I was

662
00:25:44,820 --> 00:25:42,370
surrounded by lovely people with a

663
00:25:47,370 --> 00:25:44,830
similar outlook to my own and as

664
00:25:49,230 --> 00:25:47,380
valuable as that is there's also a lot

665
00:25:51,990 --> 00:25:49,240
of value in attending events such as

666
00:25:54,030 --> 00:25:52,000
mind-body wallet paranormal Expos and

667
00:25:56,070 --> 00:25:54,040
the like in getting out of our comfort

668
00:26:00,030 --> 00:25:56,080
zone and immersing ourselves in the

669
00:26:02,460 --> 00:26:00,040
world of woo one of the main reasons

670
00:26:04,410 --> 00:26:02,470
that I go is to see firsthand what's

671
00:26:06,420 --> 00:26:04,420
going on in the realm of alternative

672
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:06,430
beliefs on health and psychology and

673
00:26:10,950 --> 00:26:08,410
scope out the sorts of products and

674
00:26:12,570 --> 00:26:10,960
services that are being sold admittedly

675
00:26:14,820 --> 00:26:12,580
I spend a fair amount of time checking

676
00:26:17,190 --> 00:26:14,830
out these things online and in magazines

677
00:26:19,230 --> 00:26:17,200
and while being able to look at these

678
00:26:21,630 --> 00:26:19,240
things from a distance offices a chance

679
00:26:24,060 --> 00:26:21,640
to take our time and thoroughly examine

680
00:26:26,250 --> 00:26:24,070
claims being made actually getting out

681
00:26:28,530 --> 00:26:26,260
there and interacting with stallholders

682
00:26:31,530 --> 00:26:28,540
offers us some insights would otherwise

683
00:26:34,050 --> 00:26:31,540
miss now I'm not a particularly

684
00:26:35,820 --> 00:26:34,060
confrontational person and perhaps I

685
00:26:38,370 --> 00:26:35,830
find interactions with people selling

686
00:26:40,650 --> 00:26:38,380
unproven and/or unscientific health

687
00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:40,660
potions a little easier than others may

688
00:26:44,580 --> 00:26:42,610
I can chat with vendors about their

689
00:26:46,290 --> 00:26:44,590
products ask questions and gain

690
00:26:49,530 --> 00:26:46,300
information without getting too

691
00:26:51,060 --> 00:26:49,540
outwardly cranky and calling BS but I

692
00:26:52,890 --> 00:26:51,070
don't think I could cope with it all too

693
00:26:54,870 --> 00:26:52,900
well without the company of other

694
00:26:57,720 --> 00:26:54,880
like-minded people for support and

695
00:26:58,890 --> 00:26:57,730
debriefing and honestly the share a few

696
00:27:00,870 --> 00:26:58,900
jokes

697
00:27:03,750 --> 00:27:00,880
find gallows humor invaluable in

698
00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:03,760
situations such as these we had a

699
00:27:07,710 --> 00:27:05,530
fantastic group for this mind-body

700
00:27:10,050 --> 00:27:07,720
wallet Richard and Aaron from the

701
00:27:13,230 --> 00:27:10,060
skeptic zone and Australian skeptic zinc

702
00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:13,240
plus dr. Brad Mackay for some medically

703
00:27:18,060 --> 00:27:15,730
informed opinions and kate brown from

704
00:27:20,070 --> 00:27:18,070
choice who you might know as the guilty

705
00:27:22,340 --> 00:27:20,080
mum from the check out who is looking at

706
00:27:24,570 --> 00:27:22,350
things from a journalistic perspective

707
00:27:28,170 --> 00:27:24,580
some of the things we saw this time

708
00:27:31,290 --> 00:27:28,180
around Wow nine hundred dollar air

709
00:27:35,730 --> 00:27:31,300
ionizers tens machines connected to

710
00:27:38,070 --> 00:27:35,740
socks alkalized water again fat-burning

711
00:27:40,590 --> 00:27:38,080
corsets and there were pink leopard

712
00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:40,600
print ones they're totally aiming for my

713
00:27:45,390 --> 00:27:43,690
demographic the orgone energy people

714
00:27:47,610 --> 00:27:45,400
with their hundred and twenty dollar

715
00:27:50,370 --> 00:27:47,620
chunks of resin that plug into power

716
00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:50,380
plants colored light therapists and

717
00:27:55,320 --> 00:27:52,810
three stalls with people who'd bought

718
00:27:57,390 --> 00:27:55,330
machines which they claimed could scan

719
00:28:00,540 --> 00:27:57,400
and diagnose problems throughout a

720
00:28:03,510 --> 00:28:00,550
person's entire body and then administer

721
00:28:07,590 --> 00:28:03,520
crystal healing all through a pair of

722
00:28:09,330 --> 00:28:07,600
headphones ish this is another good

723
00:28:11,670 --> 00:28:09,340
reason for our sceptics to attend

724
00:28:15,140 --> 00:28:11,680
mind-body wallet we can keep an eye out

725
00:28:17,490 --> 00:28:15,150
for dodgy claims that overstep the line

726
00:28:19,590 --> 00:28:17,500
unfortunately the authorities the

727
00:28:21,180 --> 00:28:19,600
Therapeutic Goods Authority the

728
00:28:23,490 --> 00:28:21,190
Australian Competition and Consumer

729
00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:23,500
Commission and the health care

730
00:28:27,900 --> 00:28:25,690
Complaints Commission don't attend these

731
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:27,910
events as far as I'm aware so don't get

732
00:28:32,550 --> 00:28:30,010
to see precisely what's being claimed

733
00:28:34,230 --> 00:28:32,560
and sold and some of the products and

734
00:28:36,900 --> 00:28:34,240
therapies that mind-body wallet do

735
00:28:39,060 --> 00:28:36,910
present a danger to consumers be it via

736
00:28:41,370 --> 00:28:39,070
false reassurance with diagnostic

737
00:28:42,990 --> 00:28:41,380
devices a false sense that people are

738
00:28:44,820 --> 00:28:43,000
addressing health problems when they

739
00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:44,830
purchase unproven and ineffective

740
00:28:49,140 --> 00:28:47,650
treatments or a waste of money on

741
00:28:51,780 --> 00:28:49,150
products which claim to address

742
00:28:54,780 --> 00:28:51,790
non-existent problems or simply don't

743
00:28:56,850 --> 00:28:54,790
work there's one other reason to go to

744
00:28:59,160 --> 00:28:56,860
mind/body wallet and the like but the

745
00:29:00,960 --> 00:28:59,170
outcome is a little more defined than

746
00:29:03,300 --> 00:29:00,970
those for information gathering and

747
00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:03,310
reporting goods and services of concern

748
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:06,130
to the authorities during discussions

749
00:29:10,410 --> 00:29:08,410
with stallholders the conversation can

750
00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:10,420
turn to our own perspectives on the

751
00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:12,010
importance of scientific

752
00:29:16,770 --> 00:29:14,770
evidence and yes this can be a little

753
00:29:18,900 --> 00:29:16,780
tricky occasionally it can be met with

754
00:29:21,540 --> 00:29:18,910
hostility or the vendors shutting down

755
00:29:24,180 --> 00:29:21,550
the conversation but sometimes they'll

756
00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:24,190
be willing to engage this can be a good

757
00:29:29,070 --> 00:29:26,890
time to employ Socratic questioning why

758
00:29:31,740 --> 00:29:29,080
do you believe this what evidence do you

759
00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:31,750
need in order to accept a claim what do

760
00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:34,450
you think skepticism involves and a try

761
00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:36,490
and reassure believers that skeptics do

762
00:29:41,580 --> 00:29:38,530
have open minds and that were not all

763
00:29:43,890 --> 00:29:41,590
about negativity it can go many

764
00:29:45,750 --> 00:29:43,900
different ways and talking believers

765
00:29:47,940 --> 00:29:45,760
around is not one of my priorities in

766
00:29:50,370 --> 00:29:47,950
these situations but I live in hope that

767
00:29:52,500 --> 00:29:50,380
there are times that stallholders take

768
00:29:53,790 --> 00:29:52,510
something positive about skepticism and

769
00:29:56,790 --> 00:29:53,800
critical thought away from these

770
00:29:59,190 --> 00:29:56,800
exchanges and I'm totally willing to

771
00:30:02,340 --> 00:29:59,200
accept that this is a leap of faith on

772
00:30:04,260 --> 00:30:02,350
my part until next time this has been

773
00:30:07,380 --> 00:30:04,270
Joe alabaster for the sceptics own

774
00:30:10,740 --> 00:30:07,390
podcast for more evidence please visit

775
00:30:13,530 --> 00:30:10,750
my blog at evidence please net you can

776
00:30:16,260 --> 00:30:13,540
contact me by emailing Joe at evidence

777
00:30:37,550 --> 00:30:16,270
please dot net or find me on twitter at

778
00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:40,590
hello Richard and all the listeners of

779
00:30:46,470 --> 00:30:43,570
skeptic zone my name is Ron levy and I'm

780
00:30:48,930 --> 00:30:46,480
the producer and co-host of curious mind

781
00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:48,940
it's about cast about science technology

782
00:30:57,120 --> 00:30:54,730
and history at wwc em-pod cmp oh d dot

783
00:30:59,190 --> 00:30:57,130
net each episode will bring you

784
00:31:01,500 --> 00:30:59,200
interesting stories from a wide range of

785
00:31:04,620 --> 00:31:01,510
subjects from physics astronomy and

786
00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:04,630
medicine from arts to science fiction we

787
00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:06,610
strive for the highest production values

788
00:31:10,980 --> 00:31:08,890
both in content and in delivery we

789
00:31:14,190 --> 00:31:10,990
already have on the air episodes about

790
00:31:16,590 --> 00:31:14,200
German u-boats in Second World War about

791
00:31:20,100 --> 00:31:16,600
the history of x-rays and the war of

792
00:31:41,860 --> 00:31:20,110
currents between Tesla and Edison come

793
00:31:46,730 --> 00:31:44,840
look I'm with someone now that I've want

794
00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:46,740
to interview for a long time a guy that

795
00:31:50,090 --> 00:31:48,210
some people call it the bunker but he's

796
00:31:52,100 --> 00:31:50,100
much more than that Joe Nickell how are

797
00:31:55,310 --> 00:31:52,110
you I'm good thanks and thanks for

798
00:31:58,039 --> 00:31:55,320
clarifying that because this idea of

799
00:32:00,260 --> 00:31:58,049
debunking suggests that you could just

800
00:32:02,450 --> 00:32:00,270
be the flip side of the true believer

801
00:32:05,299 --> 00:32:02,460
and you already know everything and you

802
00:32:09,830 --> 00:32:05,309
just dismiss it not at all for me I'm a

803
00:32:12,169 --> 00:32:09,840
detective trained and I'm curious about

804
00:32:13,970 --> 00:32:12,179
what you know okay it's probably not a

805
00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:13,980
ghost is probably not Bigfoot is

806
00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:16,650
probably not whatever but what exactly

807
00:32:21,169 --> 00:32:18,690
is it and what can we learn about

808
00:32:23,419 --> 00:32:21,179
ourselves and others from finding out

809
00:32:25,580 --> 00:32:23,429
exactly what what is that I've heard

810
00:32:27,740 --> 00:32:25,590
critics of all Joe Nickell he just finds

811
00:32:29,659 --> 00:32:27,750
the prosaic reason why something

812
00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:29,669
happened and they use that as a negative

813
00:32:36,530 --> 00:32:32,970
term is that is that the good is prosaic

814
00:32:39,230 --> 00:32:36,540
necessarily a negative turn well is it

815
00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:39,240
that they have a point that that what I

816
00:32:47,690 --> 00:32:44,330
find maybe prosaic it may be that as

817
00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:47,700
rather than the the flatwoods monster of

818
00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:50,610
West Virginia the famous case being an

819
00:32:56,630 --> 00:32:53,490
extraterrestrial creature I'm quite sure

820
00:32:58,730 --> 00:32:56,640
it was a bar now in the description of

821
00:33:01,310 --> 00:32:58,740
it with terrible claws shining eyes a

822
00:33:05,210 --> 00:33:01,320
heart-shaped face a high-pitched hissing

823
00:33:07,700 --> 00:33:05,220
sound and so forth is a Barnell for sure

824
00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:07,710
and and the flying saucer that it came

825
00:33:11,830 --> 00:33:09,690
that was a meteor and and so it's a

826
00:33:16,310 --> 00:33:11,840
comedy of errors now is a Barnell

827
00:33:18,610 --> 00:33:16,320
prosaic well that's not you know I don't

828
00:33:21,500 --> 00:33:18,620
always use that term I mean just

829
00:33:23,060 --> 00:33:21,510
actually I would say if actually it's a

830
00:33:25,250 --> 00:33:23,070
bar now I'm sorry if you wanted

831
00:33:26,990 --> 00:33:25,260
something more with more pizzazz you

832
00:33:30,049 --> 00:33:27,000
wanted a Barnell wearing a turtleneck

833
00:33:32,870 --> 00:33:30,059
shirt and you know glow beads or

834
00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:32,880
something but no this is exactly what

835
00:33:38,060 --> 00:33:36,090
the evidence shows it is to be I'll give

836
00:33:41,060 --> 00:33:38,070
you another example it's more maybe a

837
00:33:42,430 --> 00:33:41,070
little bit more exotic there was a case

838
00:33:44,499 --> 00:33:42,440
some years ago

839
00:33:47,950 --> 00:33:44,509
up in the Yukon Territory of Canada in

840
00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:47,960
the south west corner of the Yukon near

841
00:33:56,230 --> 00:33:51,610
the Alaskan coast and someone saw a

842
00:33:59,649 --> 00:33:56,240
Bigfoot that was bluish in color this

843
00:34:02,320 --> 00:33:59,659
struck me is quite unusual the nighttime

844
00:34:05,289 --> 00:34:02,330
sighting okay but they said it was

845
00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:05,299
distinctly bluish in color had maybe a

846
00:34:11,139 --> 00:34:09,050
grayish face and I and I thought this is

847
00:34:15,490 --> 00:34:11,149
ringing a bell and I checked on this

848
00:34:18,220 --> 00:34:15,500
there's a particular type of bear called

849
00:34:22,240 --> 00:34:18,230
a glacial bear that has this particular

850
00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:22,250
genetic component that has this bluish

851
00:34:27,669 --> 00:34:25,490
color and ashen face that's a pretty

852
00:34:30,190 --> 00:34:27,679
exotic animal in a way it's fairly

853
00:34:31,419 --> 00:34:30,200
limited to to the Alaskan coast so even

854
00:34:34,690 --> 00:34:31,429
people who live there might have seen it

855
00:34:39,790 --> 00:34:34,700
very often exactly and to call that

856
00:34:41,710 --> 00:34:39,800
prosaic well again that's not my job to

857
00:34:44,050 --> 00:34:41,720
decide whether something's exam i'm

858
00:34:45,639 --> 00:34:44,060
happy with an exotic explanation yeah

859
00:34:47,770 --> 00:34:45,649
it's the best and most likely

860
00:34:50,680 --> 00:34:47,780
explanation so where do you sit on

861
00:34:53,349 --> 00:34:50,690
theories of the other the realm the fact

862
00:34:55,569 --> 00:34:53,359
that what we are living in may not be

863
00:34:57,160 --> 00:34:55,579
all there is how do you go with that

864
00:35:02,470 --> 00:34:57,170
because that's what you come up against

865
00:35:05,260 --> 00:35:02,480
all the time yes I I think what my 40

866
00:35:07,510 --> 00:35:05,270
some years career of doing this that

867
00:35:12,069 --> 00:35:07,520
I've come increasingly to believe that

868
00:35:14,470 --> 00:35:12,079
we live in a real and a natural world do

869
00:35:16,420 --> 00:35:14,480
I totally rule out something else no

870
00:35:18,430 --> 00:35:16,430
it's hard to prove a negative it's hard

871
00:35:20,380 --> 00:35:18,440
to prove there isn't another dimension

872
00:35:22,900 --> 00:35:20,390
it's hard to prove they're there aren't

873
00:35:25,059 --> 00:35:22,910
leprechauns try it you can't do it you

874
00:35:27,339 --> 00:35:25,069
can't prove there are no leprechauns but

875
00:35:29,829 --> 00:35:27,349
but it's these simple principles guide

876
00:35:32,349 --> 00:35:29,839
my work one is that the burden of proof

877
00:35:34,720 --> 00:35:32,359
is on the one making the claim not on me

878
00:35:38,470 --> 00:35:34,730
to have to disprove it difficult to

879
00:35:40,599 --> 00:35:38,480
disprove these things and and some other

880
00:35:42,599 --> 00:35:40,609
principles like Occam's razor which says

881
00:35:46,270 --> 00:35:42,609
if you have two or three possibilities

882
00:35:49,300 --> 00:35:46,280
the one that makes the fewest

883
00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:49,310
assumptions is most likely to be

884
00:35:53,380 --> 00:35:51,890
corrected as a preferred hypothesis so

885
00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:53,390
someone can say to me well I don't buy

886
00:35:58,120 --> 00:35:55,130
your glacial bear thing I said

887
00:36:00,220 --> 00:35:58,130
well but look glacial bears exists the

888
00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:00,230
description is limited but it fits the

889
00:36:06,670 --> 00:36:03,530
Glacial bear I rest my case now you can

890
00:36:09,700 --> 00:36:06,680
not like it that's okay but if you want

891
00:36:11,950 --> 00:36:09,710
to replace my preferred hypothesis you

892
00:36:14,140 --> 00:36:11,960
need a better one mmm and you need one

893
00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:14,150
with so when you say oh it's a Bigfoot

894
00:36:17,950 --> 00:36:16,490
instead well you've just made an

895
00:36:19,750 --> 00:36:17,960
assumption that Bigfoot is a real

896
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:19,760
creature which exists and we don't have

897
00:36:25,510 --> 00:36:22,850
that proof so you can't you can't

898
00:36:29,080 --> 00:36:25,520
explain an unknown by by creating

899
00:36:30,700 --> 00:36:29,090
another unknown I closely on the show is

900
00:36:33,190 --> 00:36:30,710
it real where you with a guy that would

901
00:36:34,810 --> 00:36:33,200
come along and say yeah it's not so is

902
00:36:36,670 --> 00:36:34,820
that why you got you get the reputation

903
00:36:39,010 --> 00:36:36,680
as a debunker but that is not what you

904
00:36:41,650 --> 00:36:39,020
want to be known for is it no absolutely

905
00:36:43,900 --> 00:36:41,660
I don't like the term debunker and I I

906
00:36:46,240 --> 00:36:43,910
correct people who call me that it's

907
00:36:48,970 --> 00:36:46,250
true that you're put into that pigeon

908
00:36:50,500 --> 00:36:48,980
hole by TV producers a lot of TV

909
00:36:52,750 --> 00:36:50,510
producers cannot wrap their brains

910
00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:52,760
around the fact that someone could

911
00:36:58,510 --> 00:36:55,370
actually want to be a detective actually

912
00:37:01,810 --> 00:36:58,520
be open and an impartial and try to find

913
00:37:03,460 --> 00:37:01,820
the best solution they just they have

914
00:37:04,900 --> 00:37:03,470
their notion that well we have these

915
00:37:08,530 --> 00:37:04,910
people that have had these experiences

916
00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:08,540
and we needed to bunker on therefore for

917
00:37:15,430 --> 00:37:11,930
the other point of view and they have

918
00:37:17,980 --> 00:37:15,440
stereotyped debunkers they know what

919
00:37:20,830 --> 00:37:17,990
they mean by that and no matter what I

920
00:37:22,660 --> 00:37:20,840
do no matter how much they see me do

921
00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:22,670
actual detective work on something for

922
00:37:27,910 --> 00:37:25,490
three years they will still they can't

923
00:37:30,190 --> 00:37:27,920
help it but think yeah but you're really

924
00:37:32,050 --> 00:37:30,200
just a debunker aren't you well people

925
00:37:34,510 --> 00:37:32,060
would say that the term conspiracy

926
00:37:35,980 --> 00:37:34,520
theorist is used to make people who have

927
00:37:38,470 --> 00:37:35,990
alternative theories look bad as well

928
00:37:41,620 --> 00:37:38,480
that's the angle they come from well

929
00:37:44,670 --> 00:37:41,630
right I mean we need to get me our name

930
00:37:50,020 --> 00:37:44,680
calling but we don't always have time a

931
00:37:52,140 --> 00:37:50,030
show on TV shows and most you know most

932
00:37:56,380 --> 00:37:52,150
things are done with sound bites and and

933
00:37:58,600 --> 00:37:56,390
yes owes your mother but I mean there

934
00:38:01,020 --> 00:37:58,610
are conspiracy theories and some I mean

935
00:38:03,940 --> 00:38:01,030
they're real conspiracies of course but

936
00:38:06,850 --> 00:38:03,950
there are these laughable conspiracy

937
00:38:09,610 --> 00:38:06,860
theories that really don't have much

938
00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:09,620
to support them and it is it is easy to

939
00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:14,210
categorically you know say that these

940
00:38:19,390 --> 00:38:17,330
are conspiracy theorists in the same way

941
00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:19,400
and I you know occasionally talking

942
00:38:23,410 --> 00:38:21,170
about the Shroud of Turin I'll refer to

943
00:38:25,180 --> 00:38:23,420
the other side of shroud ease okay

944
00:38:28,090 --> 00:38:25,190
that's maybe not real kind but in a

945
00:38:34,210 --> 00:38:28,100
quick moment I could call them shroud

946
00:38:38,410 --> 00:38:34,220
believers I guess but so what we need is

947
00:38:42,310 --> 00:38:38,420
is time to discuss these things and time

948
00:38:44,230 --> 00:38:42,320
to present them in a way that people

949
00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:44,240
thoughtful people can hear both sides

950
00:38:48,130 --> 00:38:46,970
and come up with something the Shroud of

951
00:38:49,630 --> 00:38:48,140
Turin is one of the ones you've been

952
00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:49,640
involved with very famously of course

953
00:38:54,070 --> 00:38:52,370
the Nazca Plains you've recreated two of

954
00:38:55,300 --> 00:38:54,080
the giant now with the equipment you use

955
00:38:56,530 --> 00:38:55,310
could they have done it because I saw

956
00:38:57,700 --> 00:38:56,540
you had some rope and that they could

957
00:38:59,080 --> 00:38:57,710
have made that they could have their

958
00:39:00,130 --> 00:38:59,090
thank the people could have made this

959
00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:00,140
because I thought there might have been

960
00:39:03,430 --> 00:39:01,850
ley lines to water or something like

961
00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:03,440
that but you were thinking that there

962
00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:06,290
are ritualistically paths ritualistic

963
00:39:13,780 --> 00:39:10,610
walking paths the there are some just

964
00:39:16,950 --> 00:39:13,790
lines but these lines don't appear to go

965
00:39:20,020 --> 00:39:16,960
towards anything even astronomical

966
00:39:21,700 --> 00:39:20,030
connections don't they sort of some of

967
00:39:24,670 --> 00:39:21,710
them work and some don't seem to work

968
00:39:27,580 --> 00:39:24,680
but but most of my emphasis has been on

969
00:39:29,590 --> 00:39:27,590
these giant pictures of the birds and

970
00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:29,600
the spiders and the monkey and so forth

971
00:39:35,190 --> 00:39:32,690
and those wouldn't be lines pointing to

972
00:39:38,430 --> 00:39:35,200
some straight direction they're clearly

973
00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:38,440
fact some of them have intricate to

974
00:39:42,790 --> 00:39:41,330
zigzaggy lines inside the figure and

975
00:39:45,700 --> 00:39:42,800
they look very much like what we would

976
00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:45,710
call a maze or a labyrinth and these

977
00:39:51,730 --> 00:39:48,410
extra two lines that each figure has

978
00:39:53,890 --> 00:39:51,740
there's a pair of lines like the spider

979
00:39:56,470 --> 00:39:53,900
has a pair of extra lines coming off its

980
00:39:58,630 --> 00:39:56,480
lower right leg the monkey has a pair

981
00:40:01,720 --> 00:39:58,640
going up to the base of its tail and and

982
00:40:03,310 --> 00:40:01,730
we've puzzled over this for a lot why

983
00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:03,320
are these extra lines there they have

984
00:40:09,850 --> 00:40:06,410
nothing to do with layout or design or

985
00:40:12,190 --> 00:40:09,860
anything but as I as I've shown if you

986
00:40:13,630 --> 00:40:12,200
walk one of those lines and they look

987
00:40:15,130 --> 00:40:13,640
like paths on the ground because the

988
00:40:17,240 --> 00:40:15,140
gravel has been cleared away that's how

989
00:40:19,850 --> 00:40:17,250
the pictures show up

990
00:40:22,100 --> 00:40:19,860
if you walk one of those lines and enter

991
00:40:24,620 --> 00:40:22,110
the figure the figures are all drawn

992
00:40:25,940 --> 00:40:24,630
with a continuous line you you just keep

993
00:40:27,980 --> 00:40:25,950
walking and walking and you're

994
00:40:30,500 --> 00:40:27,990
traversing the entire figure and you

995
00:40:33,740 --> 00:40:30,510
come out the other line so this is this

996
00:40:36,530 --> 00:40:33,750
is just really good evidence that these

997
00:40:38,540 --> 00:40:36,540
are ritual walking paths I mean people

998
00:40:40,070 --> 00:40:38,550
who say could they have also been trying

999
00:40:42,380 --> 00:40:40,080
to signal something that they saw in the

1000
00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:42,390
sky at some stage as well well then why

1001
00:40:47,240 --> 00:40:44,370
would you need the double lines these

1002
00:40:49,040 --> 00:40:47,250
these extraneous lines that invite you

1003
00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:49,050
to walk into the figure and walk out of

1004
00:40:55,280 --> 00:40:52,650
the figure but but yes we could ask that

1005
00:40:57,950 --> 00:40:55,290
question but could they be signals for

1006
00:41:00,860 --> 00:40:57,960
the for the gods or the spaceships the

1007
00:41:03,500 --> 00:41:00,870
irony is that if you were in a spaceship

1008
00:41:06,230 --> 00:41:03,510
and coming in to Planet Earth you would

1009
00:41:09,020 --> 00:41:06,240
be able to see this plateau of Nazca

1010
00:41:10,730 --> 00:41:09,030
this giant 30 mile plateau you could see

1011
00:41:12,950 --> 00:41:10,740
that and it would be useful to think of

1012
00:41:15,860 --> 00:41:12,960
it as maybe a place to land those

1013
00:41:18,500 --> 00:41:15,870
figures are miniscule teensy tiny

1014
00:41:20,780 --> 00:41:18,510
compared but the time you get down low

1015
00:41:23,630 --> 00:41:20,790
enough for a spaceship low enough to see

1016
00:41:25,820 --> 00:41:23,640
that and understand them and there's a

1017
00:41:27,890 --> 00:41:25,830
bewildering mixture of them what would

1018
00:41:29,900 --> 00:41:27,900
it mean to you why would you need to see

1019
00:41:31,790 --> 00:41:29,910
a spider and a bird and some what would

1020
00:41:35,210 --> 00:41:31,800
what would the purpose this be and you'd

1021
00:41:37,550 --> 00:41:35,220
be almost ready to land and then as

1022
00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:37,560
Maria Reiche said the German

1023
00:41:41,830 --> 00:41:38,970
mathematician who spent her life

1024
00:41:44,300 --> 00:41:41,840
protecting the Nazca lines she said that

1025
00:41:45,860 --> 00:41:44,310
the ground was soft there she said I'm

1026
00:41:49,220 --> 00:41:45,870
afraid this spaceman would have gotten

1027
00:41:50,720 --> 00:41:49,230
stuck and it was also you mentioned just

1028
00:41:52,700 --> 00:41:50,730
are you involved in the Kennedy

1029
00:41:53,570 --> 00:41:52,710
assassination investigation now when did

1030
00:41:55,220 --> 00:41:53,580
you do that I would have thought that

1031
00:41:57,020 --> 00:41:55,230
that would have been even bigger than

1032
00:41:59,660 --> 00:41:57,030
the Shroud of Turin because that is one

1033
00:42:02,390 --> 00:41:59,670
that has so many misdirections and bits

1034
00:42:04,490 --> 00:42:02,400
of misinformation yeah I didn't play a

1035
00:42:06,500 --> 00:42:04,500
big role in the Kennedy assassination I

1036
00:42:09,530 --> 00:42:06,510
mean that's that people are all over the

1037
00:42:11,780 --> 00:42:09,540
place without their there tons of stuff

1038
00:42:13,490 --> 00:42:11,790
i would have had devoted devoted a good

1039
00:42:15,350 --> 00:42:13,500
part of my life to that and it was

1040
00:42:18,050 --> 00:42:15,360
already pretty much people have been

1041
00:42:20,210 --> 00:42:18,060
there done that my role was to attempt

1042
00:42:23,630 --> 00:42:20,220
to help Robert Oswald the brother of Lee

1043
00:42:24,430 --> 00:42:23,640
Harvey Oswald when a a crackpot named

1044
00:42:27,940 --> 00:42:24,440
eidos

1045
00:42:30,970 --> 00:42:27,950
a solicitor claimed that Oswald was an

1046
00:42:33,010 --> 00:42:30,980
Oswald his claim was that Oswald went to

1047
00:42:34,780 --> 00:42:33,020
Russia and the Russians did something

1048
00:42:37,030 --> 00:42:34,790
you know hit him away or killed him or

1049
00:42:39,579 --> 00:42:37,040
something got rid of Oswald and they

1050
00:42:42,970 --> 00:42:39,589
sent a look-alike back who was an

1051
00:42:46,510 --> 00:42:42,980
assassin now just stop for a moment and

1052
00:42:49,210 --> 00:42:46,520
think could the mother of Oswald have

1053
00:42:51,910 --> 00:42:49,220
been fooled by any imposter of course

1054
00:42:55,900 --> 00:42:51,920
not this is this is fantasy of the most

1055
00:42:57,460 --> 00:42:55,910
James Bondish silliness well although it

1056
00:43:00,460 --> 00:42:57,470
was a very interesting character in that

1057
00:43:02,349 --> 00:43:00,470
he's very few marines went to went to

1058
00:43:04,780 --> 00:43:02,359
Russia and left the country then came

1059
00:43:07,359 --> 00:43:04,790
back he's a very unusual character he's

1060
00:43:09,790 --> 00:43:07,369
that he's that but but just stick with

1061
00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:09,800
me so so we've got this that all I'm

1062
00:43:14,890 --> 00:43:11,810
dealing with is this with this one claim

1063
00:43:17,079 --> 00:43:14,900
of the Oswald is not Oswald Oswald is

1064
00:43:19,270 --> 00:43:17,089
not buried in Oswald's great and this

1065
00:43:21,099 --> 00:43:19,280
guy wanted Oswald dug up and Robert did

1066
00:43:23,700 --> 00:43:21,109
not want that to happen it was refusing

1067
00:43:26,079 --> 00:43:23,710
and then marina the widow of Lee Harvey

1068
00:43:27,940 --> 00:43:26,089
said well I called his bluff and she

1069
00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:27,950
said he could could do it and it caused

1070
00:43:34,870 --> 00:43:31,210
a rift in the family but I had tried to

1071
00:43:37,359 --> 00:43:34,880
enter into this and say look we can we

1072
00:43:40,180 --> 00:43:37,369
can determine already whether Oswald was

1073
00:43:42,880 --> 00:43:40,190
Oswald because the first of all the

1074
00:43:44,440 --> 00:43:42,890
fingerprints of course eidos said yeah

1075
00:43:46,420 --> 00:43:44,450
but they switched the fingerprints in

1076
00:43:48,220 --> 00:43:46,430
the file you see so he's got a game your

1077
00:43:49,960 --> 00:43:48,230
plan so I said okay here's here's how

1078
00:43:51,400 --> 00:43:49,970
you could do it if they dig him up and

1079
00:43:53,349 --> 00:43:51,410
use dental records he'll say they switch

1080
00:43:55,990 --> 00:43:53,359
the dental records here's what I'm going

1081
00:43:58,300 --> 00:43:56,000
to do and and I worked with a top expert

1082
00:44:00,910 --> 00:43:58,310
on this the human ear is very

1083
00:44:03,910 --> 00:44:00,920
distinctive no two are alike and we had

1084
00:44:06,849 --> 00:44:03,920
we checked we had excellent pictures of

1085
00:44:09,819 --> 00:44:06,859
the Dallas assassins at years when he

1086
00:44:11,980 --> 00:44:09,829
was in custody very good pictures and we

1087
00:44:14,740 --> 00:44:11,990
had Marine Corps pictures of Oswald that

1088
00:44:16,540 --> 00:44:14,750
edo's said were authentic Lee Oswald and

1089
00:44:18,309 --> 00:44:16,550
I had this expert compare them he said

1090
00:44:20,559 --> 00:44:18,319
it's the same man there's no question

1091
00:44:22,450 --> 00:44:20,569
about that they did so even if you found

1092
00:44:25,420 --> 00:44:22,460
someone with approximately the same

1093
00:44:28,089 --> 00:44:25,430
height as Oswald facial resemblance you

1094
00:44:30,099 --> 00:44:28,099
did plastic surgery his mother for

1095
00:44:32,230 --> 00:44:30,109
heaven's sakes wouldn't have been fooled

1096
00:44:34,030 --> 00:44:32,240
for 30 seconds she would have said oh

1097
00:44:35,190 --> 00:44:34,040
remember whatever and he would have had

1098
00:44:39,329 --> 00:44:35,200
a different

1099
00:44:40,710 --> 00:44:39,339
and so forth his did he and did end up

1100
00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:40,720
getting exhumed doesn't remember someone

1101
00:44:48,810 --> 00:44:44,490
did to do with the case so so the wife

1102
00:44:51,210 --> 00:44:48,820
allowed it he was exhumed they did use

1103
00:44:53,400 --> 00:44:51,220
dental records they also used a mess hi

1104
00:44:55,680 --> 00:44:53,410
dekhta me scar behind the ear that

1105
00:44:59,339 --> 00:44:55,690
Oswald had they found proof of that so

1106
00:45:01,410 --> 00:44:59,349
they they were able forensically to you

1107
00:45:03,690 --> 00:45:01,420
know reasonably but but if anybody was

1108
00:45:06,930 --> 00:45:03,700
interested and nobody was that we had

1109
00:45:09,510 --> 00:45:06,940
proved before that that Oswald was in

1110
00:45:12,750 --> 00:45:09,520
Oswald's grave because the ears matched

1111
00:45:14,970 --> 00:45:12,760
and you know Robert was my impression of

1112
00:45:20,400 --> 00:45:14,980
him talked to him a few times on the on

1113
00:45:23,910 --> 00:45:20,410
the phone a very nice fellow very very

1114
00:45:25,710 --> 00:45:23,920
much of the mold that well my life was

1115
00:45:28,109 --> 00:45:25,720
ruined by my brother assassinating the

1116
00:45:31,290 --> 00:45:28,119
president and I did my duty I buried him

1117
00:45:33,930 --> 00:45:31,300
and and by golly that's that's it for me

1118
00:45:36,510 --> 00:45:33,940
that leave me alone don't keep harassing

1119
00:45:39,839 --> 00:45:36,520
me because I had nothing to do with it

1120
00:45:42,960 --> 00:45:39,849
and I felt sorry for him and I think

1121
00:45:46,950 --> 00:45:42,970
that he was a much put-upon and very

1122
00:45:49,140 --> 00:45:46,960
decent fellow and that was any way that

1123
00:45:51,390 --> 00:45:49,150
that's pretty much i reviewed i reviewed

1124
00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:51,400
just for my own self some of the Kennedy

1125
00:45:56,520 --> 00:45:54,010
assassination material waiting with a

1126
00:45:58,740 --> 00:45:56,530
the gym amount of stuff well I met Jim

1127
00:46:01,410 --> 00:45:58,750
Marrs once on a talk show and Mars is

1128
00:46:03,990 --> 00:46:01,420
you know from the planet Mars as far as

1129
00:46:06,359 --> 00:46:04,000
I'm concerned he's a flake in cowboy

1130
00:46:09,240 --> 00:46:06,369
boots and and that is he grabbed on

1131
00:46:10,470 --> 00:46:09,250
dizzy are you saying he perhaps it has

1132
00:46:12,150 --> 00:46:10,480
information it's not there or

1133
00:46:16,319 --> 00:46:12,160
extrapolate stuff beyond what it's

1134
00:46:18,329 --> 00:46:16,329
possible it was hard to say what he just

1135
00:46:20,309 --> 00:46:18,339
seems to me a bit of an airhead he

1136
00:46:23,819 --> 00:46:20,319
doesn't seem to me someone who's a solid

1137
00:46:25,710 --> 00:46:23,829
thinker he what happens with the

1138
00:46:27,930 --> 00:46:25,720
conspiracy theorists as they poke around

1139
00:46:29,520 --> 00:46:27,940
and they they find a few discrepancies

1140
00:46:30,990 --> 00:46:29,530
and he try to convince you there's

1141
00:46:34,650 --> 00:46:31,000
something wrong well there are many

1142
00:46:37,349 --> 00:46:34,660
anomalies on that day yeah most of them

1143
00:46:39,300 --> 00:46:37,359
selected you see out of but but if you

1144
00:46:41,339 --> 00:46:39,310
if you're a real detective you're trying

1145
00:46:44,520 --> 00:46:41,349
to put pieces together of a puzzle that

1146
00:46:47,460 --> 00:46:44,530
fit and explain something so if you want

1147
00:46:48,260 --> 00:46:47,470
to criticize the the warren commission

1148
00:46:50,600 --> 00:46:48,270
and

1149
00:46:54,080 --> 00:46:50,610
well they had their super bullet theory

1150
00:46:56,090 --> 00:46:54,090
that did all this well actually the best

1151
00:46:57,230 --> 00:46:56,100
forensic evidence is that that's exactly

1152
00:46:59,720 --> 00:46:57,240
what happened it was a copper-jacketed

1153
00:47:01,490 --> 00:46:59,730
bullet so it didn't deform very much and

1154
00:47:04,010 --> 00:47:01,500
yes it went through two men spot is

1155
00:47:05,660 --> 00:47:04,020
nothing unusual tall about that and I've

1156
00:47:07,460 --> 00:47:05,670
been to the Book Depository and looked

1157
00:47:10,190 --> 00:47:07,470
out the window it's an easy shot in my

1158
00:47:11,720 --> 00:47:10,200
opinion but people want to say oh there

1159
00:47:13,850 --> 00:47:11,730
were extra shooters on the grassy knoll

1160
00:47:16,310 --> 00:47:13,860
a little bit so even a Z a shot from the

1161
00:47:18,710 --> 00:47:16,320
grassy knoll about well I don't think so

1162
00:47:20,780 --> 00:47:18,720
and I'll tell you I'll tell you why but

1163
00:47:22,430 --> 00:47:20,790
but first I want to make a point if

1164
00:47:24,770 --> 00:47:22,440
you're going to criticize the super

1165
00:47:26,720 --> 00:47:24,780
bullet you can't postulate extra

1166
00:47:28,970 --> 00:47:26,730
evaporating bullets that you don't have

1167
00:47:30,890 --> 00:47:28,980
to account for you can't just take some

1168
00:47:32,360 --> 00:47:30,900
other pieces of the puzzle and dazzle

1169
00:47:34,940 --> 00:47:32,370
them in front of people's eyes and

1170
00:47:37,190 --> 00:47:34,950
confuse them you have to okay you put

1171
00:47:39,620 --> 00:47:37,200
your pieces together and let's see how

1172
00:47:41,210 --> 00:47:39,630
corroborate if they are and then we'll

1173
00:47:44,060 --> 00:47:41,220
have something but the conspiracy

1174
00:47:47,600 --> 00:47:44,070
theorists never have a solid clear case

1175
00:47:49,610 --> 00:47:47,610
that they can point to and use Occam's

1176
00:47:51,800 --> 00:47:49,620
razor with they just have lots more

1177
00:47:53,600 --> 00:47:51,810
smoke and mirrors and they but they want

1178
00:47:55,430 --> 00:47:53,610
to convince you that well something's

1179
00:47:58,850 --> 00:47:55,440
wrong now here's the thing about the

1180
00:48:02,420 --> 00:47:58,860
shot I've stood on the grassy knoll but

1181
00:48:06,590 --> 00:48:02,430
you're shooting in any hunter I grew up

1182
00:48:09,170 --> 00:48:06,600
with guns we shot if if something is

1183
00:48:11,570 --> 00:48:09,180
moving in your field of vision from left

1184
00:48:13,460 --> 00:48:11,580
to right and you have to shoot you're

1185
00:48:16,100 --> 00:48:13,470
moving you're sweeping your gun and you

1186
00:48:18,590 --> 00:48:16,110
need to shoot a little ahead because it

1187
00:48:20,030 --> 00:48:18,600
to accommodate for the speed but what

1188
00:48:23,060 --> 00:48:20,040
was happening in the Book Depository

1189
00:48:25,400 --> 00:48:23,070
you're shooting down and all you're

1190
00:48:29,030 --> 00:48:25,410
doing is just gently moving your rifle

1191
00:48:31,250 --> 00:48:29,040
just slightly up as it's going away from

1192
00:48:35,780 --> 00:48:31,260
you it's a pretty direct and easy shot

1193
00:48:38,030 --> 00:48:35,790
it I looked at both places i would i

1194
00:48:41,120 --> 00:48:38,040
would take the oswal shot from the

1195
00:48:44,540 --> 00:48:41,130
window a 10 times over over a grassy

1196
00:48:47,270 --> 00:48:44,550
knoll but but but keep in mind where the

1197
00:48:48,410 --> 00:48:47,280
shell casings were where were they they

1198
00:48:50,060 --> 00:48:48,420
were in the book deposit were there any

1199
00:48:52,730 --> 00:48:50,070
shell casings of the grassy there were

1200
00:48:54,470 --> 00:48:52,740
not assassin would pick up his silk I

1201
00:48:57,860 --> 00:48:54,480
see your make that's making

1202
00:48:59,690 --> 00:48:57,870
rationalizations to defend a position

1203
00:49:01,970 --> 00:48:59,700
that's not ultimately defendable

1204
00:49:04,490 --> 00:49:01,980
defendable now furthermore

1205
00:49:07,960 --> 00:49:04,500
their people their pictures of this or

1206
00:49:10,310 --> 00:49:07,970
men the window below Oswald's window

1207
00:49:14,180 --> 00:49:10,320
leaning out the window watching the

1208
00:49:17,359 --> 00:49:14,190
parade the the motorcade and they heard

1209
00:49:19,280 --> 00:49:17,369
the bang bang bang from upstairs and

1210
00:49:24,109 --> 00:49:19,290
they heard the shell casings drop on the

1211
00:49:27,440 --> 00:49:24,119
floor they describe this and so we need

1212
00:49:30,230 --> 00:49:27,450
to account for three bullets and we can

1213
00:49:32,300 --> 00:49:30,240
and they traced Oswald whose hand print

1214
00:49:35,780 --> 00:49:32,310
was on the boxes his hand print was on

1215
00:49:38,890 --> 00:49:35,790
the gun a partial palm treo more than

1216
00:49:41,900 --> 00:49:38,900
enough more than enough a tiny little

1217
00:49:45,680 --> 00:49:41,910
half of the third of a fingerprint is

1218
00:49:47,810 --> 00:49:45,690
more than enough to get rich detail I

1219
00:49:52,820 --> 00:49:47,820
have fingerprint training so I know

1220
00:49:54,349 --> 00:49:52,830
where I've I speak and so we know Oswald

1221
00:49:56,540 --> 00:49:54,359
was there we know he brought in that

1222
00:49:58,280 --> 00:49:56,550
morning he brought in a long object

1223
00:50:00,490 --> 00:49:58,290
which he said was curtain rods no I

1224
00:50:03,620 --> 00:50:00,500
think we know now is a

1225
00:50:05,359 --> 00:50:03,630
mannlicher-carcano rifle and we know he

1226
00:50:07,430 --> 00:50:05,369
bought such a rifle we know he there

1227
00:50:09,170 --> 00:50:07,440
were pictures of him with right so the

1228
00:50:12,080 --> 00:50:09,180
conspiracy theorists are trying to

1229
00:50:14,030 --> 00:50:12,090
confuse and make up anything and each

1230
00:50:16,340 --> 00:50:14,040
one has a different theory and each book

1231
00:50:18,710 --> 00:50:16,350
that you read you think yeah boy that's

1232
00:50:20,150 --> 00:50:18,720
that's right they've really until you

1233
00:50:22,099 --> 00:50:20,160
read the next book and they've got a

1234
00:50:23,750 --> 00:50:22,109
whole different scenario and bunch of

1235
00:50:26,150 --> 00:50:23,760
smoke and mirrors you think oh yeah but

1236
00:50:29,359 --> 00:50:26,160
this time they really got it no no

1237
00:50:32,180 --> 00:50:29,369
actually Oswald is with Oswald and

1238
00:50:35,599 --> 00:50:32,190
Oswald shot those three shots we don't

1239
00:50:37,099 --> 00:50:35,609
need six or eight more shots because

1240
00:50:40,160 --> 00:50:37,109
where did those bullets go did they

1241
00:50:42,920 --> 00:50:40,170
evaporate you have to you have to get

1242
00:50:44,990 --> 00:50:42,930
serious about accounting for not just oh

1243
00:50:47,420 --> 00:50:45,000
the another bullet went through where

1244
00:50:51,170 --> 00:50:47,430
did that go and where is the evidence of

1245
00:50:53,599 --> 00:50:51,180
that bullet we can account for the three

1246
00:50:55,640 --> 00:50:53,609
shots Oswald fired and and they're well

1247
00:50:57,140 --> 00:50:55,650
accounted for and they only discrepancy

1248
00:50:59,359 --> 00:50:57,150
really if the Warren Report made a

1249
00:51:02,990 --> 00:50:59,369
serious error in some of that forensic

1250
00:51:06,200 --> 00:51:03,000
stuff the sequencing of the bullets one

1251
00:51:09,120 --> 00:51:06,210
missed and the exact order that has has

1252
00:51:11,609 --> 00:51:09,130
maybe maybe they were in error on that

1253
00:51:14,849 --> 00:51:11,619
but it's a small matter three shots were

1254
00:51:17,609 --> 00:51:14,859
fired quickly now how do you feel about

1255
00:51:19,349 --> 00:51:17,619
the house select committee in 1976 when

1256
00:51:21,480 --> 00:51:19,359
they brought down a finding that there

1257
00:51:22,740 --> 00:51:21,490
was more than one person involved and

1258
00:51:24,120 --> 00:51:22,750
that then that is the final official

1259
00:51:25,950 --> 00:51:24,130
report on look there what do you think

1260
00:51:27,839 --> 00:51:25,960
of the house select committee report in

1261
00:51:30,749 --> 00:51:27,849
76 because that kind of updated the

1262
00:51:32,609 --> 00:51:30,759
water report did it or not well they you

1263
00:51:35,160 --> 00:51:32,619
know they were they were suckered like

1264
00:51:37,710 --> 00:51:35,170
everybody else with all the the hoopla

1265
00:51:40,200 --> 00:51:37,720
and the fanfare and so forth and they

1266
00:51:42,960 --> 00:51:40,210
also bought into the acoustic evidence

1267
00:51:45,240 --> 00:51:42,970
that that there was sounds and that

1268
00:51:50,460 --> 00:51:45,250
always later discredited totally by the

1269
00:51:52,910 --> 00:51:50,470
FBI laboratory so really you come down

1270
00:51:55,289 --> 00:51:52,920
to oftentimes if you get enough

1271
00:51:57,720 --> 00:51:55,299
investigators and you get enough

1272
00:52:00,240 --> 00:51:57,730
personalities some of them are more

1273
00:52:02,339 --> 00:52:00,250
solid and good thinkers and some are a

1274
00:52:06,599 --> 00:52:02,349
little quicker to go off in never never

1275
00:52:10,200 --> 00:52:06,609
land and so I think it was a compromise

1276
00:52:13,920 --> 00:52:10,210
to to to say that there could have been

1277
00:52:15,920 --> 00:52:13,930
other persons involved even I mean it of

1278
00:52:19,079 --> 00:52:15,930
course would remain always a question

1279
00:52:21,390 --> 00:52:19,089
that Oswald might have had someone put

1280
00:52:23,910 --> 00:52:21,400
him up to it but now we're talking

1281
00:52:26,460 --> 00:52:23,920
something quite different if we if we

1282
00:52:29,220 --> 00:52:26,470
agree that Oswald did the shooting then

1283
00:52:30,329 --> 00:52:29,230
that's them we could reasonably say

1284
00:52:32,880 --> 00:52:30,339
could there have been someone else

1285
00:52:36,059 --> 00:52:32,890
behind him but even that doesn't doesn't

1286
00:52:38,309 --> 00:52:36,069
show up well Oswald was a weird and

1287
00:52:40,499 --> 00:52:38,319
disturbed guy if you were picking him

1288
00:52:44,220 --> 00:52:40,509
for your assassin you'd have to be an

1289
00:52:46,289 --> 00:52:44,230
idiot he for sure shot at general Walker

1290
00:52:50,220 --> 00:52:46,299
there's no question that at some time

1291
00:52:52,980 --> 00:52:50,230
before that a walker was shot at through

1292
00:52:57,390 --> 00:52:52,990
a window and we now know that Oswald did

1293
00:53:00,920 --> 00:52:57,400
that and you know he was out he was he

1294
00:53:03,150 --> 00:53:00,930
was the loose loose cannon out to shoot

1295
00:53:05,819 --> 00:53:03,160
people that he thought were right

1296
00:53:07,079 --> 00:53:05,829
wingers and and I won't even get into

1297
00:53:08,970 --> 00:53:07,089
the jack ruby stuff because that just

1298
00:53:11,640 --> 00:53:08,980
complicates it even further that doesn't

1299
00:53:13,799 --> 00:53:11,650
it right and as I say I have not made a

1300
00:53:17,460 --> 00:53:13,809
career of the Kennedy assassination you

1301
00:53:20,220 --> 00:53:17,470
would almost have to do that to to

1302
00:53:21,790 --> 00:53:20,230
really answer all the questions but if

1303
00:53:26,130 --> 00:53:21,800
people wanted to find out

1304
00:53:30,340 --> 00:53:26,140
out that they should they should read

1305
00:53:38,020 --> 00:53:30,350
Gerald Posner's book or Vincent Bugliosi

1306
00:53:40,420 --> 00:53:38,030
book those are recommended saying any

1307
00:53:44,620 --> 00:53:40,430
book is error-free or not you know they

1308
00:53:47,950 --> 00:53:44,630
got every absolute crumb of evidence

1309
00:53:51,550 --> 00:53:47,960
exactly perfectly but they so clearly

1310
00:53:53,980 --> 00:53:51,560
show and documentaries like a CBS

1311
00:53:57,280 --> 00:53:53,990
documentary and others have recreated

1312
00:54:00,790 --> 00:53:57,290
the gunshots from the from that angle

1313
00:54:02,830 --> 00:54:00,800
and and shown that that absolutely what

1314
00:54:04,270 --> 00:54:02,840
the conspiracy theorists told you that

1315
00:54:06,100 --> 00:54:04,280
it was a difficult shot no one could

1316
00:54:07,930 --> 00:54:06,110
shoot that fast not no one can shoot

1317
00:54:10,180 --> 00:54:07,940
that accurate the bullet would do this

1318
00:54:13,120 --> 00:54:10,190
or this none of that is true and has

1319
00:54:15,190 --> 00:54:13,130
been very well demonstrated people can

1320
00:54:17,620 --> 00:54:15,200
see that on these documentaries they

1321
00:54:19,960 --> 00:54:17,630
show up you know from from time to time

1322
00:54:22,180 --> 00:54:19,970
to replayed and they're very very

1323
00:54:24,850 --> 00:54:22,190
convincing and it's not all part of some

1324
00:54:28,720 --> 00:54:24,860
conspiracy to cover up something nobody

1325
00:54:30,580 --> 00:54:28,730
would have any trouble really with any

1326
00:54:32,950 --> 00:54:30,590
other scenario let's just round up

1327
00:54:37,060 --> 00:54:32,960
whoever they are and put him in prison

1328
00:54:39,340 --> 00:54:37,070
the idea that someone shooting from the

1329
00:54:42,340 --> 00:54:39,350
Book Depository could precisely at the

1330
00:54:44,200 --> 00:54:42,350
precise moment coordinate with someone

1331
00:54:46,900 --> 00:54:44,210
from the grassy knoll is pretty

1332
00:54:48,580 --> 00:54:46,910
ludicrous you and I couldn't do it would

1333
00:54:51,490 --> 00:54:48,590
you wait for me to fire in the new fire

1334
00:54:52,920 --> 00:54:51,500
quickly would you fire first and I fire

1335
00:54:56,320 --> 00:54:52,930
quickly would we have walkie-talkies

1336
00:54:58,600 --> 00:54:56,330
would nobody have any evidence of all

1337
00:55:01,270 --> 00:54:58,610
this the stock I guess if they were like

1338
00:55:02,650 --> 00:55:01,280
mafia type assassins that dead set up a

1339
00:55:03,820 --> 00:55:02,660
crossfire but what you do if you're

1340
00:55:06,790 --> 00:55:03,830
trying to get something wouldn't you

1341
00:55:08,620 --> 00:55:06,800
know what you would do is just what what

1342
00:55:10,630 --> 00:55:08,630
Oswald did you'd have a sitting duck

1343
00:55:13,570 --> 00:55:10,640
shot that you couldn't miss and you just

1344
00:55:16,360 --> 00:55:13,580
shoot and he got three shots off I was

1345
00:55:17,380 --> 00:55:16,370
very effective look a one more question

1346
00:55:21,010 --> 00:55:17,390
and i'll leave this because i don't want

1347
00:55:22,330 --> 00:55:21,020
to make it there the JFK show how do you

1348
00:55:23,770 --> 00:55:22,340
headed out how do you make up the fact

1349
00:55:25,180 --> 00:55:23,780
that he got to the coke machine so

1350
00:55:26,770 --> 00:55:25,190
quickly afterwards and looked relaxed

1351
00:55:30,100 --> 00:55:26,780
that's the one on what the fact i find

1352
00:55:35,079 --> 00:55:30,110
odd well i wasn't there with a stopwatch

1353
00:55:36,519 --> 00:55:35,089
were you right so i don't know

1354
00:55:38,140 --> 00:55:36,529
certainly been impressed a time or two

1355
00:55:43,269 --> 00:55:38,150
that something happened a lot faster

1356
00:55:45,160 --> 00:55:43,279
than I sure it did but but if we want to

1357
00:55:47,739 --> 00:55:45,170
go through the this what happened

1358
00:55:52,749 --> 00:55:47,749
afterwards just consider that Lee Harvey

1359
00:55:55,029 --> 00:55:52,759
Oswald to a certainty a fled the Book

1360
00:55:57,420 --> 00:55:55,039
Depository it's pretty much a sign of

1361
00:56:01,029 --> 00:55:57,430
guilt in any jurisdiction in any

1362
00:56:04,930 --> 00:56:01,039
detectives playbook and when accosted by

1363
00:56:07,269 --> 00:56:04,940
patrolman Tippett who halted him because

1364
00:56:10,180 --> 00:56:07,279
he looked like a fleeing fellow and and

1365
00:56:13,479 --> 00:56:10,190
and matched a description that he had

1366
00:56:16,180 --> 00:56:13,489
what happened Oswald shot him to death

1367
00:56:21,209 --> 00:56:16,190
on the street and fled into a movie

1368
00:56:25,059 --> 00:56:21,219
theater and people saw saw this so again

1369
00:56:27,880 --> 00:56:25,069
really what's the people's problem with

1370
00:56:30,009 --> 00:56:27,890
every single incriminating thing that

1371
00:56:32,200 --> 00:56:30,019
Lee Harvey Oswald did and it's an

1372
00:56:34,180 --> 00:56:32,210
impressive list of which I have only

1373
00:56:37,359 --> 00:56:34,190
begun to get started listing all that he

1374
00:56:40,029 --> 00:56:37,369
did what is it about these people that

1375
00:56:42,099 --> 00:56:40,039
want to excuse this and rationalize that

1376
00:56:44,289 --> 00:56:42,109
we have another explanation for that and

1377
00:56:46,150 --> 00:56:44,299
we just don't want to believe it when

1378
00:56:49,509 --> 00:56:46,160
the simple is that you know an

1379
00:56:51,940 --> 00:56:49,519
intelligent person can look at this and

1380
00:56:54,400 --> 00:56:51,950
say well if it looks like an assassin

1381
00:56:56,380 --> 00:56:54,410
acts like an assassin and has palm

1382
00:56:57,670 --> 00:56:56,390
prints and please and shoots two

1383
00:57:01,420 --> 00:56:57,680
different you know maybe he's an

1384
00:57:03,579 --> 00:57:01,430
assassin it just boggles my mind that

1385
00:57:06,700 --> 00:57:03,589
there are people who in spite of this

1386
00:57:09,130 --> 00:57:06,710
impressive evidence insist on believing

1387
00:57:10,509 --> 00:57:09,140
something to the contrary and you have

1388
00:57:13,959 --> 00:57:10,519
to wonder whether there's something

1389
00:57:16,930 --> 00:57:13,969
fundamentally wrong with their thinking

1390
00:57:22,900 --> 00:57:16,940
process or whether they have some really

1391
00:57:25,359 --> 00:57:22,910
anti American government agenda that was

1392
00:57:28,269 --> 00:57:25,369
pop one of main odds interview with Joe

1393
00:57:31,420 --> 00:57:28,279
Nickell next week tune in for part two

1394
00:57:33,759 --> 00:57:31,430
where Joe will be discussing more about

1395
00:57:37,150 --> 00:57:33,769
conspiracy theories the Shroud of Turin

1396
00:57:40,450 --> 00:57:37,160
and how to investigate mysteries also

1397
00:57:43,209 --> 00:57:40,460
some UFO abductions that'll be next week

1398
00:57:59,290 --> 00:57:43,219
with part two may not chatting to Joe

1399
00:58:03,080 --> 00:58:01,640
thanks for listening to the skeptic zone

1400
00:58:05,990 --> 00:58:03,090
and thank you Joe Nickell for that

1401
00:58:08,720 --> 00:58:06,000
wonderful interview part one part one

1402
00:58:10,790 --> 00:58:08,730
more to come with Maynard part two is

1403
00:58:12,890 --> 00:58:10,800
next week and thank you to Joe for your

1404
00:58:15,500 --> 00:58:12,900
report too and thank you to all the

1405
00:58:17,660 --> 00:58:15,510
people who helped put together the

1406
00:58:20,200 --> 00:58:17,670
convention in Brisbane on last weekend

1407
00:58:23,090 --> 00:58:20,210
last weekend Wow it was fantastic

1408
00:58:26,410 --> 00:58:23,100
everybody who went enjoyed it the lineup

1409
00:58:28,940 --> 00:58:26,420
was just superb what a great lot of a

1410
00:58:31,370 --> 00:58:28,950
skeptical speakers all in the same venue

1411
00:58:33,080 --> 00:58:31,380
the venue itself was very nice indeed we

1412
00:58:35,720 --> 00:58:33,090
really enjoyed that the garland dinner

1413
00:58:38,480 --> 00:58:35,730
was fun great effort Brisbane skeptics

1414
00:58:40,460 --> 00:58:38,490
great effort indeed so on next week's

1415
00:58:43,610 --> 00:58:40,470
show more from the convention more from

1416
00:58:47,150 --> 00:58:43,620
Joe Nickell and well whatever else we

1417
00:58:49,430 --> 00:58:47,160
can scrounge together but for this week

1418
00:58:55,970 --> 00:58:49,440
this is Richard Saunders signing off

1419
00:58:57,640 --> 00:58:55,980
from Sydney Australia you've been

1420
00:59:01,130 --> 00:58:57,650
listening to the sceptics own podcast

1421
00:59:04,250 --> 00:59:01,140
visit our website at wwc a petting zoo

1422
00:59:08,090 --> 00:59:04,260
TV for contacts an archive of all

1423
00:59:10,400 --> 00:59:08,100
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1424
00:59:13,120 --> 00:59:10,410
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00:59:16,130 --> 00:59:13,130
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1426
00:59:19,190 --> 00:59:16,140
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00:59:22,040 --> 00:59:19,200
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1428
00:59:25,520 --> 00:59:22,050
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1429
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1430
00:59:29,570 --> 00:59:27,870
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1431
00:59:31,640 --> 00:59:29,580
views and opinions expressed on the

1432
00:59:34,330 --> 00:59:31,650
skeptic zone and not necessarily those

1433
00:59:56,470 --> 00:59:34,340
of Australian skeptically or any other

1434
01:00:13,660 --> 01:00:02,540
what do you want hmm what is it yo seno

1435
01:00:28,359 --> 01:00:23,170
come on hey you are not good enough for

1436
01:00:39,280 --> 01:00:28,369
you try the other champion come on how

1437
01:00:59,780 --> 01:00:42,560
yeah go a few pop up yeah help up there